Another Stack based on a conversation in the Shadow Over Sojenka discord.
I have written previously about the Higher Order Campaign style of play:
Creating the Unicorn Play Experience
I kicked off a long discussion with this comment:
The Dungeon Master
I think I'm very close to having a methodology for explaining how to set up this kind of self-propelled scenario. It sort of needs to start from the beginning, but also I think there's a way to inject it into an existing game.
The biggest hurdle we face, in this group and other groups, is that the participants are not veteran players of Diplomacy. They aren't familiar with the strategies, they aren't used to hacking the system and playing variants.
We, as a group, don't have the benefit of applying the overall model to different milieux, such as Middle Earth or the Hyborean Age.
The wargame paradigm is one in which
the Dungeon Master creates a campaign setting,
and the Players create characters &
choose goals/objectives for themselves.
This is the shift that Player 2 is talking about.
This is the additional structure that is difficult to insert into an existing campaign mechanism.
Player 1
This is one thing I have totally noticed with patrons
Player 2
Player dynamic is arguably more difficult to adjust. Consider @Deathtrap Games Tweets about teamwork and cooperation. The games' rules incentivize this type of play. It's very difficult to tread the line between "Faction of One" selfish play and developing a true team to accomplish in game goals without sacrificing the group's overall effectiveness.
The assumed arc is somewhere mid to high levels the friction boils over into some kind of pvp based off of commentary from Gygax in AD&D. I think that was a result of the type of player that he had at his tables, primarily wargamers and beginning their campaigns that way.
The Dungeon Master
My thesis is that session players and downtime players will need to be assigned NPC roles to take on, that they will need to play to the best of their ability, as Antagonists or Allies, and all of the players will be graded on how they play all of their characters simultaneously. If they play their Fighting Man very well but they play the Cooper's Guild Master poorly, then both characters will receive poor grades.
The gaming equivalent of the Gymbro, "One more rep you _____ _____!"
There was quite a bit of back and forth, with many excellent points being made by all of the dudes in the conversation.
The core of the discussion was about styles of play and approaches to the game.
Player 2
Consider that the most successful of these events, which the goal is to turn into the default mode of play, involve threads being resolved that actually matter to the players.
The ones that fabricate conflict among factions the players don't care about are much less successful overall.
Player 1
I'm not sure I necessarily agree though I understand the idea. I'd think that NPCs that do badly will get outcompeted really quickly
Player 2
When working as intended, the players are generating those PVP scenarios themselves. It's not even an "event". I'm still trying to square that personally with my preferred playstyle.
It was easier to know going in that we were gonna square off with [Goblin King] et al in Sojenka. It's harder for me to understand how we were going to turn on each other.
Consider that the most successful of these events, which the goal is to turn into the default mode of play, involve threads being resolved that actually matter to the players. The ones that fabricate conflict among factions the players don't care about are much less successful overall.
The Dungeon Master
And therein lies the rub, for if the players do not identify threads/objectives that matter to them as players and/or characters, the dungeon master is left to their own devices, fabricating conflict that has failed to materialize organically.
In order to achieve this organic conflict, the players simply need to be more engaged, more invested [in the] settings, and have the desire to effect some sort of change, either to their advantage or to another player's detriment.
NOTE: By “fabricating conflict that has failed to materialize organically“ I mean contriving a situation between two Players. A DM can, and should, be inviting conflict by introducing new NPCs, new Factions, to confound and antagonize the players.
Player 2
It jars the natural loop and incentives of these games to assume The Fighter and The Cleric are gonna beef after 7 levels of going through literal mythical underworld hell together to gain resources and level. Alignment helps to drive that.
Player 3
Because the constant throughline that holds the consistency is the world.
You have to accept that your PC won't be in every conflict.
The campaign needs to be first.
The fighter and the cleric can be buddies.
But they can't be buddies and be involved in every single world thread.
Player 2
If the players are developing the PVP scenarios themselves through their play, their PCs are going to be involved in most conflicts. The more inorganic insertion of DM generated factions simply to have them into the conflict, the less true to the intended mode of TNB being considered. The setting only exists in what players choose to interact with. Everything else is irrelevant. Forced interaction with elements that the players don't care about is a friction point.
“BY ORDERING THINGS AS THEY SHOULD BE, THE GAME AS A WHOLE FIRST, YOUR CAMPAIGN NEXT, AND YOUR PARTICIPANTS THEREAFTER, YOU WILL BE PLAYING ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE.”
~Gary Gygax, 1979, AD&D Dungeon Master’s Guide Afterword, p.230
“Campaign elements the Players don’t care about is a friction point”
“But Druid,” I can hear you now, “my players don’t care about Factions and Domains and stuff” or “How can you make Players care about the Campaign elements you created?”
The short answer is, you can’t.
Players do not like being given assignments or told what to do. They cannot be forced to care about or invest their time and resources in, contrived objectives inserted by the DM into the campaign.
There is, however, a way for PLAYERS to create interesting campaign elements they care about…
The Dungeon Master
The conventional paradigm is that of a team working together to overcome obstacles placed in their way by the Dungeon Master. It is assumed that the DM has some sort of overarching plan, and the players are supposed to figure out what the next step is, which puzzle piece fits into which space.
The wargame paradigm is one in which the dungeon master creates a campaign setting, and the players create characters and choose goals/objectives for themselves.
Often it will be the case that the action steps needed to achieve these objectives will align [converge] between characters, other times the action steps will diverge.
This is where multiple PCs per session player is … important.
This is why matching the calendar of the game to the calendar of the real world is important. Because planning is important.
If the magic-user needs to go collect some cockatrice feathers, and the druid needs to go collect some mistletoe on a certain day, both of those adventures can happen in different sessions. The cleric's player can run a fighter who is accompanying the magic-user to the cockatrice hunt, the next week the magic user's player will run a ranger to accompany the cleric … on the mistletoe gathering mission.
Because time moves at a steady, predictable rate, the players can coordinate which sessions will accommodate which missions.
But Wait, There’s More!
The other Session Players can also choose which of their characters they’d like to send on the cockatrice mission, or the mistletoe hunt. Do the other players want to help? Or hinder? Or just spy on what the magic-user is doing? Will they get some cockatrice feathers for themselves, or for a Downtime Player, Patron, or other Session Player?
Pursuing their own goals creates a dynamic environment, because of the imbalance between convergent and divergent personal goals within the group. Because this dynamism is created by the players themselves, it is a piece of the campaign they will care about.
Player 2
I'm not arguing the scale, or that in traditional dramatic media the conflict can't or shouldn't arise.
I'm saying that getting from battle brothers in the trenches to throwing down with each other is a stretch, if it isn't assumed going in that everyone's out for themselves and will betray you at some point. There's a trust generated from overcoming challenges together.
It's absolutely a player mentality thing, which the game rules incentivize avoiding that PVP simply because the rewards are better. If going into the game everyone assumes that eventually the Players become the primary antagonists themselves, then that'll be easier to swallow. Or if there are antagonistic factions at the outset, like patron players or other parties of PCs.
The Dungeon Master
Imagine a situation where a fighter has found a ruined castle that he decides he wants to claim for his own, out there in the wilderness. So he gathers his henchmen and decides to travel to the capital of the Kingdom and appeal to the King for assistance etc.
This trip could take weeks, taking this character out of action. The character could be accompanied by characters of the other players in the session group, who would also all be out of action for weeks.
Over the course of this journey random encounters and such could be resolved on a weekly basis, using 10 or 15 minutes at the beginning of each session.
Meanwhile the Session Players' other characters can continue to adventure, working on achieving their own individual objectives.
At the beginning of the Dubzaron campaign, we had a chance for lots of PVP stuff to start taking place, because we kept putting our characters in time jail, and so we had multiple groups of characters scattered over the map.
We used downtime to move characters around so that we would have the best team to take on whichever mission we planned for each session.
Unfortunately we followed the conventional paradigm in that we were achieving group objectives rather than having one player assemble a group of characters to complete an action step for their own, personal objective.
What Needs to Change? Setting Goals
The Dungeon Master
Setting an initial goal or objective for your character may need to become part of the character-creation process.
This goal can change based on events on the ground, but player grading needs to be based on how well the player uses the character to achieve a stated objective.
Drama and conflict will not be organically created if players do not share their objectives with the DM.
Player 3
Would being stricter about social hierarchy fix this? If the baron took most of your money for the war effort instead of every penny you get going to yourself fix this? Maybe gold should only equal EXP if you give that gold to a faction? Just rambling.
The Dungeon Master
That's how it works in Champions of Zed.
Player 3
That would refocus towards the faction play from the individual character play more and make the factions more impactful and important and potentially make PCS choosing factions more important.
Ideas for Incentivizing Faction Play
It is a well-known idea that you will get more of any behavior you reward.
So, let’s reward the players for prioritizing the Faction game, starting with a Faction of One, the PC.
Experience points are generally awarded on a one-for-one basis based on the number of gold pieces a character finds in a dangerous place and brings back to civilization. This methodology encourages teamwork, persistence, and risk-taking. In AD&D there is a mechanic by which the DM grades each character’s play, giving them a numerical score that affects how long it takes, and how much it costs, for the character to level up when enough experience has been gained. (AD&D DMG, p. 86)
Based on what we have learned from playing with 1:1 Downtime Pacing, multiple characters per player, and Patron-run Factions, I believe it is time to modify the experience point awards system, AND the character grading system.
Character Creation
As mentioned above, defining a goal or objective for your character should become part of the character creation process. This does not have to be an elaborate, 8-page “backstory”, just a couple of sentences to guide your play. The Goal should be appropriate to the setting, the character’s class, and their alignment.
Shamirovar wishes to bring the healing power of the moon goddess to all of the people of the Realm. Her goal is to build or enhance a shrine to the moon goddess in every village or town she comes to in her travels.
This activity can be handled quickly during a session or as part of a character’s downtime actions between sessions.
A character’s goal may change! There could be events or adventures that inspire a player to set a new goal. At the end of a session, or during downtime, a player can inform the DM they wish to update their PC’s Goal. The new goal should continue to fit the character’s class and alignment.
Downtime Activities
A frequent comment about 1:1 Pacing is that some players just aren’t interested in participating in downtime activities between sessions. Personally, I don’t believe it’s an issue of having time, it’s an issue of not understanding the benefits.
While there is an exhaustive list of things characters can do in town between sessions, some players just don’t see the point. Because there is no real penalty for not taking downtime actions, they aren’t motivated to try to find out, either!
A player who does not participate in any downtime activities with one or more of their characters should be dinged on their Session Play Grade.
Level training is a downtime activity. Many other activities can be of tangible benefit to characters:
Research/study (learn a language, a new skill, a new spell)
Tracking down rumors
Spying on competitors or enemies
Building structures for PC or Faction use (a house, a stronghold, a shrine, a library, an alchemical lab)
Recruiting Henchmen and Hirelings (Faction-building)
Doing the “shopping” (so you don’t waste session time with it)
Engaging in trade, investments, or smuggling
Simple “Carousing” (gambling, boxing/gladiatorial bouts, hanging out at “The Club”)
Attending social events (that you don’t need to play in-session) (Dances, horse races, circuses, gladiatorial matches)
Evangelizing for your patron deity (Faction-building)
Planning the next session’s activities
Again, doing these downtime activities is as simple as sending the DM a private message, “Hey, Shamirovar will be spending 3 days and 300 GP building a shrine to the moon goddess in Orlane.”
Grading
We should probably stop grading Characters and start grading PLAYERS. This grade, and the cost multiplier, would then apply to all of their PCs and Factions.
Leveling up would take longer and cost more for ALL of their characters.
Scores greater than 1 could be used as a negative modifier in several ways:
Reaction Rolls.
Recruiting Henchmen and Hirelings.
Spell and magic item research.
Domain morale.
This tool becomes even more powerful for suppressing meta-gaming. I haven’t worked out the details, but I envision it as representing the general response of the Campaign/Setting to the Player's actions within the Campaign/Setting. A Player (and their characters) that is ‘going against the grain’ should have a more difficult road to travel than one who is “ORDERING THINGS AS THEY SHOULD BE”. It is the second type of Player who ought to be rewarded.
Grading would then be based on play according to the character’s Race/Ethnicity, Class, Alignment, Patron Deity, Faction Role, Downtime Activity level, and taking action to achieve their stated Personal Goal. In reviewing the grading system more carefully, and thinking about it much more thoroughly over the past few days, it occurs to me that a score of “2” should be the baseline (i.e., “meets expectations” in performance review lingo). The score of 1 should be reserved for that truly superior level of play.
Exchanging Gold for Experience Points
Just grabbing the gold and bringing it back to town isn’t good enough. The only behavior this incentivizes is lair-smashing. We want a Higher-Order Campaign, so we need to reward higher-order activity.
Let’s look at the features of the Higher-Order Campaign:
Characters and Factions have personal goals, and actions are taken to accomplish them. These goals can and should be divergent. This drives the conflict and drama of the campaign.
Player vs Player conflict is not only expected but encouraged. Keep in mind that PvP conflict does not have to be violent, nor involve a betrayal, it is simply a matter of competing Goals.
The DM creates the milieu, not a list of story beats to be acted out.
The Players drive the action within the milieu, by striving to accomplish the divergent Goals of their Characters and Factions.
This striving will generate conflict and competition, which give the Campaign meaning and value, driving Player engagement.
Players will participate in the milieu at all levels and environments, simultaneously. There is nothing to stop a player from having a pool of characters, some of whom are Barons, some aspiring leaders of men, and others are struggling new adventurers taking part in dungeon, urban & wilderness activities.
Despite having divergent goals and objectives, there will be times when PC/NPC interests converge. Which PCs are “actively in play” will change from session to session, based on their position in the game world and calendar.
The pace of time, in-game and IRL, is steady and predictable. It makes planning for future events simple and reliable, by tying the game calendar to the IRL calendar. This makes Time a resource to be managed, just like gold and personnel, which can be used to a Player’s advantage or detriment.
Fog of War creates an environment where no one person knows all of what is happening. Players and the Referee can be surprised as events unfold by wit, wile, or roll of the dice.
Gaining Experience Points
Experience Points in the Higher Order Campaign will be gained from gold/treasure that is spent/utilized in the following ways:
Any gold spent on resources to advance a PC’s stated Goal. (“300 gp to build a shrine”)
Any gold spent on PC upkeep.
Any gold spent on recruiting Hirelings or Henchmen, and their ongoing upkeep.
Any gold spent on pursuing Downtime activities (ex, seeking out rumors and corroboration; creating scrolls, potions, or magic items; learning new skill or language), or earned from Downtime activities (ex, invested 1,000 gp in a caravan, received 110 gp in profits, would earn 110 XP)
Any gold donated to the temple of your character’s patron deity.
Any gold spent toward Guild membership (or other “professional association”, such as a Fighting Man’s Training Yard).
Any gold spent on Level Training, based on a grade of 1. Any additional gold spent for training due to a poor grade is not exchanged for XP.
Any gold spent on establishing a Domain/Stronghold. This would include the expense of the men at arms hired to clear the territory, as well as purchasing or surveying land. (“Experience for Infrastructure” as Clerics Wear Ringmail described it to me once.)
Any gold earned as revenue from the inhabitants of a Domain can be counted toward XP at a ratio of 10 GP to 1 XP.
All of these XP transfers can easily be tracked on a character sheet or spreadsheet.
Playtesting
This is a DRAFT list of methods for exchanging gold for XP. It will be tested, analyzed, and modified to find what works best for incentivizing play within the Wargame Paradigm.
We will begin testing these XP exchange categories in the Shadow Over Sojenka Campaign in the coming months, as well as some new ideas for faction management.
Capt Hook (Captain Hook’s Brolog) has been doing some excellent work, digging deep into Tony Bath’s Setting Up a Wargames Campaign, and we’ll be working together to put these principles to practical use in D&D campaigns once more.
Thanks for reading, I look forward to comments and discussion!
Keep on gaming!
I would say "Gold tithed to a character's guild or other professional society" earns XP. Even better, break up the benefits of the next level, and make those individual benefits available as training services at the guild. Next level is, say 5000XP, next level is +1 to hit, +1d6 HP, and +1 weapon specialization. So each of those characteristic advances cost 1666 GP to purchase. Each requires a third of the whole level training time dedicated to training to achieve.